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John S. Worth sworn for the opponents and Examining by W.T.Cogswell
q: Where do you reside and did you know Sarah Gibson in her life time?
a: I reside in Canandaigua, and I did know her.
q: How long had you known Sarah Gibson, how intimately?
a: I have known her since the first of June 1864 and have had the
collection of her income from that time to this and paid it over to her
as she desired it.
q: Was the office you occupied in the same house where she resided?
a: Yes sir.
(xx shown a paper purporting to be the last will and testament of
Mrs. Sarah Gibson and attention called to the signatures thereto.)
q: Did you see Mrs. Gibson sign that paper - the will?
a: I did.
q: Where was it signed?
a: In her own house in the room immediately above the office.
q: Who were present?
a: Judge Jas. C. Smith, Isobel Leask, Mrs. Gibson and myself.
q: State what was done and said.
a: She said it was her last will and testament. I do not precisely understand.
q: What was said as to the will?
a: She acknowledged it to be her last will or testament and I signed it as a witness.
That is all I remembering being said, and I signed it and left immediately.
q: State when then you were requested to sign the will by anybody and if so by whom?
a: I was requested to sign it by Judge Jas. C. Smith, he was present at the time.
q: Was that request in Mrs. Gibson's presence?
a: Yes sir.
q: Was the certification you signed read over to you there in her presence?
a: I don't think it was - am quite sure it was not.
q: Did any other person sign it there and if so whom - the will?
a: Mrs. Leark was there and signed it, I saw her sign it. (Witness - attention called to the codicil)
q: Look at the signature of Mrs. Gibson to that and see if you recognize that as her signature?
a: I do.
q: Did you see her sign that?
a: Yes sir.
q: Did you subscribe that as a subscribing witness?
a: I did.
q: Where was that paper executed?
a: Just where the will was, in the room over my office.
q: What took place when that was executed?
a: I could not recollect anything taking place except Judge Smith pointing out
where I should write my name. Mrs. Gibson simply apologized because her hand trembled.
q: Was there anything said about that being the codicil to her last will?
a: Yes.
q: By whom?
a: By Judge Smith in the presence of Mrs. Gibson.
q: State whether anything was said with regard to your becoming a witness to the
codicil?
Objected to as leading or improper.
Overruled and Exception taken.
a: All that was said.
q: Anything said?
a: xx
q: By whom and what was it?
a: By Judge J.C. Smith.
q: What was it he said?
a: He asked me to sign it as a codicil to Mrs. Gibson's will and I did it as
he requested and he signed it himself.
q: You recognize that as the signature of Judge Smith?
a: Yes sir.
q: You know his handwriting?
a: Yes sir.
q: And he made that signature in your presence?
a: Yes sir. I saw him sign it.
The paper about which the witness testified is now offered in evidence.
Received and marked Example "a". Will dated March 18, 1878 and codicil
June 4, 1880.
q: In whose handwriting is that will and codicil other than the signatures?
a: The handwriting is Judge Jas. C. Smith's.
q: State whether at the time that will and codicil was signed Mrs. Gibson
was in your opinion a person of sound mind.
Objection to that question is improper in form and incompetent.
Objection overruled and Exception taken.
a: She was
q: What is your age?
a: 84 last August - in my 85th year.
q: State whether Mrs. Gibson was present when you signed the codicil as a
witness.
a: Certainly she was.
q: And the will likewise?
a: Yes sir.
CROSS EXAMINED by Mr. Ranier.
q: Before you went to her room what had you been doing that day?
a: The usual xx of the office, and I can think of nothing special.
q: At what time of day the will was signed, did you go to the upper room?
a: I think the forenoon. I think it was. I cannot say whether it was
the forenoon or afternoon. During the broad daylight.
q: Who called you to her room?
a: That I cannot tell. I can not say who called me.
q: A member of the family?
a: I think - I don't know - I think it was a servant came to the door and called me
that they wanted to see me up stairs. I cannot remember precisely who it was.
q: How long were you in the room upstairs at the signing of the will?
a: Perhaps 10 minutes. I don't think longer than that if I was that long - top
then 10 minutes.
q: Do you recollect the last time you shook hands with Mrs. Gibson?
a: I don't.
q: Will you tell me when you shook hands with her last that you do remember?
a: I can not.
q: Was it some time before her death?
a: It was perhaps - I can not say - it was before her last sickness that I
shook hands with her.
q: The question is how long?
a: I cannot tell you. It is utterly impossible. I took no note of such things.
q: Was it some years before her death?
a: It could not have been a year.
q: How long would you say it was?
a: I can not say - it is out of the question. I can not say.
q: Do you recollect the occasion when you shook hands with her last before her death?
a: I cannot. I frequently used to go up.
q: That answers my question. Do you recollect when it was?
a: It was in her
q: Do you recollect where you last shook her by the hand?
a: It was in her own room?
q: You cannot tell when it was?
a: No.
q: Can you tell within a year of the time?
a: I have no recollection of it at all. I usually
q: That is all, that answers my question; do you recollect when you have seen
Mrs. Gibson to converse with her before the day the will was executed - when before that?
a: I can not recollect when.
q: Do you recollect any occasion of your wanting her to converse with her within 3 months
before the will was executed?
a: No.
q: Do you recollect any occasion conversing with her within six months before the will was
executed?
a: Not any. I don't.
q: Do you recollect any conversation you had with her within 6 months before the will
was executed?
a: I don't.
q: How long before the will was executed do you recollect a conversation with her?
a: I cannot -- I don't recollect -- nothing to recall it.
q: How long before the will was executed do you recollect an occasion of a conversation?
a: I do not recollect the time -- the times -- any times I had conversation with him.
q: When you were in the upper room in which the will was executed last -- before you
went there to see the will executed?
a: It was not the room she usually occupied.
q: When were you in that room in which the will was executed last before it was executed?
a: I can not tell.
q: Within a year had you been?
a: May have been - I don't know. It was a room I rarely went into except to see this will.
I don't know that I was
q: Which room was Mrs. Gibson's room, specially used by her previous to the execution of
the will?
a: One fronting on Main St. and immediately above, I think immediately above the parlor.
q: Front room over the parlor?
a: Yes sir.
q: Do you recollect the last time you went by that room before the will was executed?
a: I don't.
q: Do you recollect any time even three months before the will was executed you had
been to that room over the parlor.
a: I don't.
q: Do you recollect when before the will was executed Mrs. Gibson came to the office last?
a: I do not recollect.
q: Do you remember an occasion of her being in your office within 6 months before
the will was executed?
a: I don't.
q: How long before the will was executed do you recollect a time when she was in the office?
a: I cannot tell.
q: Do you recollect any illness coming up on her previous to the time when the will was
executed?
a: I don't.
q: Do you know whether she had any illness during 2 years previous to the execution of the will?
a: I don't.
q: Can you say it was not a member of the family who called you to the room where the will
was executed?
a: I can not.
q: I mean one of the immediate family -- not the servants. Can you say it was not one
of the immediate family?
a: I think it was a servant. I can not say either one way or another.
q: Do you recollect the message the servant gave you?
a: They wished to see me up stairs.
q: Do you recollect anything else she said more specific than that?
a: Nothing at all.
W
S - N
E
q: What was this room in which the will was executed -- bedroom or parlor?
a: Bedroom.
q: Can you give me the size of the room?
a: Room certainly quite as large as this.
q: Give us your opinion of its size.
a: I should think 18 by 20 feet.
q: Maybe 2 feet larger either way?
a: Yes sir, it may be some larger.
q: Where was the bed located in the room that day?
a: The house is fronting the east I think. The bed was in the southeast corner.
q: In the southeast corner of the room?
a: Yes sir.
q: And the house is on which side of Main St.
a: West side.
q: And this was the southeast corner?
a: Yes sir.
q: Bed was in the southeast corner of the room?
a: Not precisely in the corner, there was a passage way to the windows.
q: Passage way between the wall and bed?
a: Between the front wall.
q: How much passage way, such as a servant would require?
a: There was perhaps 4 or 5 feet.
q: Do you recollect entering the room?
a: Yes sir.
q: Who opened the door?
a: I don't remember that. I opened it myself so far as I can recollect.
q: Was it opened when you came to it?
a: I think it was open.
q: Were you spoken to by anybody except the person that called you before
you entered the room?
a: No sir.
q: Do you recollect?
a: I don't.
q: Whether you were or not?
a: I don't recollect whether I was or not.
q: Do you recollect who first spoke to you when you entered the room?
a: I don't.
q: Do you recollect whether you spoke to anybody but Judge Smith while you
were in the room?
a: I spoke to Mrs. Gibson -- and Judge Smith.
q: Do you recollect what you said to her?
a: Nothing more than the usual compliments of the day; asking how she was xx (p10)
q: Do you recollect what you said to her?
a: No sir.
q: Do you recollect her reply if any?
a: No.
q: Is that all that passed between you and was spoken between you and Mrs. Gibson?
a: All except the apology I have spoken of before as to her hand trembling.
q: Is that all she said in your presence?
a: All I recollect.
q: Have you stated all you said to her?
a: I don't recollect whether I have or not.
q: You said you merely passed the compliments of the season? Do you recollect
anything more you said to her?
a: I don't.
q: You said you spoke to Judge Smith in the room?
a: Yes sir.
q: Tell me what you said to him.
a: I asked him where I should sign my name and he told me, pointed it out, and I
signed it.
q: Did he say anything more to you?
a: Not that I remember.
q: You understand me?
a: I do.
q: I am asking you for all that was said by you to Judge Smith or by Judge Smith to you.
a: Well he asked me to sign my name so and so, which I did and that I remember very well.
q: What was the so and so -- use his words as nearly as you can.
a: That is out of the question for I cannot remember; he pointed out where I should
sign it.
q: Can you recollect the words he used?
a: No sir.
q: Do you recollect the substance of the words?
a: I cannot.
q: Do you recollect anything more he said than he asked you to sign your name?
a: I cannot.
q: Do you recollect that he told you what paper you were signing?
a: Yes.
q: What did he say? Can you recollect his words?
a: Nothing more than codicil to Mrs. Gibson's will. I cannot remember the exact words,
simply pointed it out as a matter of course and I signed it as he requested.
(I was apprised it was a codicil) -- I saw Mrs. Gibson sign it.
On motion the words "I was apprised it was a codicil are stricken out.
q: Where was the paper lying when Judge Smith said that?
a: I think upon the table which was put before me to sign the paper on the table.
q: What kind of a table was that?
a: I do not recollect.
q: Was the table put near a window?
a: No.
q: Where did the table stand?
a: Stood. Mrs. Gibson sat between the windows and where the table stood when I signed it.
q: I want to know where the table stood?
a: Stood at the foot of the bed, and Mrs. Gibson between that and the window.
q: How far from the bed - foot of the bed?
a: Three or four feet.
q: How near to the window?
a: Six or 8 feet.
q: Head of the bed was which way?
a: Head of the bed was of course to the south.
q: Did you hear anything said by Judge Smith to Mrs. Gibson?
a: No. I don't remember anything being said.
q: Did you hear anything said by Mrs. Gibson to Judge Smith?
a: Aside from the apology that her hands troubled.
q: Did you sit to write your name?
a: I did.
q: At the table?
a: Yes.
q: Was Judge Smith standing when you wrote your name?
a: I don't remember.
q: Where was Mrs. Gibson when you wrote your name?
a: She was between me & the window in the chair. She signed there so I did.
q: At the time the will was signed I inquire? She was sitting in the chair?
a: I think she was.
q: Do you recollect?
a: I think she was sitting in the chair. Quite sure she was.
q: Would you say she was not lying on the bed?
a: Yes.
q: Do you recollect she was not.
a: Yes.
q: Was she in a wrapper?
a: I have forgotten. I think she was not.
q: Do you recollect how she was dressed? When the will was signed?
a: She was dressed in nothing extraordinary.
q: Do you recollect how she was dressed?
a: I do not recollect.
q: Upon writing your name did you rise & leave the room?
a: Certainly.
q: Went to the office below?
a: Certainly.
q: Do you recollect seeing Mrs. Gibson that day again?
a: I did not.
q: Do you recollect how soon after that you did she her?
a: I don't.
q: I believe you have said you don't remember when you saw her before?
a: No I don't remember the time.
q: Who were in the room besides Judge Smith & Mrs Gibson?
a: Miss Leask.
q: What other members of the family?
a: I don't recollect any other members of the family.
q: Do you recollect there was not?
a: I don't.
q: Do you recollect seeing Mrs. Lansing that day?
a: I don't.
q: Do you know whether she was in the house?
a: I think she was.
q: Had you seen Judge Smith on the subject of the will before that day?
a: No.
q: Either on that day or ever before?
a: I have seen Judge Smith before a great many times.
q: Had you seen him to speak with him on the subject of a will on that day
or ever before.
a: Never have.
q: have you previously signed as a witness any other paper purporting to be a
will of Mrs. Gibson's?
a: I don't remember whether I have or have not.
q: Do you recollect any occurrance about the time that the will was signed?
a: I don't.
q: March '78?
a: I don't. Nothing special.
q: When was the subject of the will or a codicil to the will first brought to your attention after that day?
a: First I knew about the will was when I signed it.
q: When was the subject of the will or codicil brought to your attention after that day?
a: When the codicil was signed.
q: Before that time was the subject brought to your attention in any way?
a: None at all.
q: By no person?
a: By no person.
q: Where were you when you were spoken to about the codicil first?
a: In the office.
q: What time of day was it?
a: I can not say other than it was broad day light.
q: Who spoke to you?
a: I cannot say who it was. Whether the maid sent down stairs to ask me to come up, but
I think it was -- I can not tell.
q: Before you went to the room did you know what you were going for?
a: No.
q: Did you when the will was signed?
a: No.
q: What room was the codicil signed in?
a: Same room the will was.
q: Who were in the room when you went into it?
a: Judge Jas C. Smith. I don't recollect any other person but Judge Smith,
Mrs. Gibson & myself.
q: Do you recollect there were no others?
a: I don't.
q: Any members of the family might have been in the room without your noticing the fact?
a: Yes sir. Mrs. Charles Sherman might have been in the room. I think it was more than
probable. She was most usually.
q: As to Mrs. lansing?
a: I don't recollect whether she was or not.
q: Do you recollect who spoke to you when you went into the room first?
a: No.
q: Do you recollect who you spoke to?
a: No.
q: Do you recollect what you said to any person in the room?
a: No.
q: Do you recollect anything you said to Mrs. Gibson?
a: Nothing special.
q: Do you recollect anything you said to Judge Smith?
a: No.
q: Tell me what Judge Smith said to you please?
a: He asked me to sign my name & pointed me out where to have it signed and I did so.
q: Have you told us all he said to you?
a: All I remember.
q: Give us as nearly as you can the words Judge Smith used?
a: I can give you the idea.
q: Give us the substance of the words?
a: He asked me to sign that as a codicil to Mrs. Gibson's will & pointed the place,
and I signed it as directed - as requested.
q: Did you speak with any person in the room?
a: Not that I remember.
q: Did any person speak to you except Judge Smith?
a: And Mrs. Gibson of course.
q: Do you recollect she spoke to you?
a: I do not recollect. If she had not spoken I could not say - could not say positively she did
not & positively that she did - but as a matter of course I think she did.
I know she spoke to me, but wehat she said I do not recollect the exact words or import of them.
q: If she spoke to you what was the subject?
a: She asked me how I was.
q: Do you recollect she asked you how you were?
a: I don't.
q: How long were you in the room at that time of the codicil?
a: Very few minutes indeed. I came up out of the office & went back immediately.
q: Do you recollect seeing Mrs. Lansing again that day?
a: I don't.
q: Mrs. Gibson I mean.
a: I don't. I recollect I did not see her again that day.
q: Can you tell me when you had seen her before signing the codicil?
a: No.
q: Can you tell when you saw her next after signing the codicil?
a: No.
q: Can you tell whether you had any conversation with her within 3 or 4 months before
signing the codicil?
a: No.
q: Or after signing it?
a: No sir.
q: When did you hand her any money in her hand?
a: I don't know.
q: Tell me as nearly as you can?
a: I never handed her any money in her hand.
q: Did she personally receive money from you during the last 4 years of her life?
a: No.
q: When did she last personally receive money from you?
a: I cannot recollect.
q: How many years before her death?
a: I cannot remember.
q: Well is it 6 or 8 years before her death?
a: I cannot remember the time when she received it, and I cannot remember whether I ever
paid her any money personally. She usually
q: Never mind the usual - to whom did you hand the money collected from the estate?
a: To Mrs. Sherman: wife of Chas C., her
brother - Mrs. Gibson's brother.
|
Charles Alexander Watts Sherman, Sarah's baby brother, was City Treasurer of Buffalo NY in 1860-61.
Charlotte, his wife, died in Canandaigua 1 May 1880. Charles died there ten years later, 30 March 1890.
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q: Up to what time did she receive the money personally?
a: Up to the time of her illness.
q: Of whose illness?
a: Mrs. Sherman's.
q: Tell me when that was?
a: I cannot tell you precisely the time.
q: How many years before the death of Mrs. Gibson?
a: Some 5 years I think.
q: Was it not more than that?
a: I cannot tell when it was.
q: After you ceased to pay to Mrs. Sherman to whom did you hand the money?
a: I handed money one time I think to Mrs. Lidhnor who was there.
q: For what length of time?
a: That I cannot remember.
q: Then to whom?
a: When I did not hand it to anyone except when it was, I don't remember
handing money to anyone except at the close of the month. I was in the habit of
sending it.
q: Did that relate to the payment of money?
a: Yes sir.
q: Very well. I xx
a: I usually put - I always put the money in an envelope to pay the servants & sent it to the
party who was in the house. When Mrs. Sherman was there I sent it to her & Mrs. Ticknor when she was there I sent it to her
to hand over to the servants. Afterwards I sent it & gave it to the servant & told her to take it to
Mrs. Lansing.
q: At what time did you commence to send money to Mrs. Lansing?
a: After the death of Mrs. Chas. Sherman.
q: Did you previously send any money to Mrs. Lansing?
a: No.
q: How did you send the money to Mrs. Tickmor?
a: Precisely the same way.
q: In an envelope by a servant?
a: Yes. in a envelope directed to
q: Envelope addressed to the person to whom you gave it?
a: Yes sir.
q: Did you make an annual report or account in the Estate?
a: No.
q: Of her property?
a: No.
q: When had you made a report or account of her property previously to signing of the will?
a: I don't recollect.
q: State as nearly as you can.
a: I cannot tell when. It was sometime previous
to her signing the will.
q: How long should you say it was?
a: Could not say.
q: Had you made such an account within 5 years before the will was signed?
a: Yes I think I had sir.
q: Within 4 years?
a: I can not tell. I can not tell the time
definitely. The fact is I will tell you why I don't remember these things.
I make no notes.
q: If you don't recollect that answers my question.
a: I want it otherwise: why I don't recollect
is that I usually whenever I have anything to say I put it in the books.
Objm to answering beyond the question.
q: Who examined, if anybody, your accounts?
a: Mr. Lansing.
q: Which Lansing?
a: Henry L. Lansing.
q: At what time previous to the execution of the will did he make such an examination
of your accts?
a: I do not recollect.
q: When after the execution of the will did he make an examination of your accounts?
a: I don't think he ever did at all after
the execution of the will.
q: Previous to the execution he did at some time? will you tell me when it was?
a: I can not.
q: Within what period of time before March '78?
a: That I can not tell.
q: Was it within a short or long period? was it a short or long time before?
a: I cannot remember.
q: Had any other person examined into the condition of the estate?
a: No.
q: For how many years?
a: For the whole time I have been there.
q: Do you mean during the time you had been in charge of Mrs. Gibson's estate no one had made
an investigation of your accounts except Mr. Lansing?
a: That is what I mean.
q: How frequently during the three years before March '78 did you make an account of the estate?
Take an inventory?
a: What I called an account was my receipts &
my disbursements. That is all I did.
q: How frequently did you furnish such an account to anybody during 3 years before her death
if at all?
a: It would be simply annually. I used formerly -
I have it for the latter years.
q: Up to what time?
a: I cannot tell.
q: Had you done it after '75?
a: I don't remember.
q: After the year, after Jan 1st 1878 do you recollect any occasion before the death of Mrs. Gibson
that you spent an afternoon in her company?
a: I don't.
q: Or that you had extended conversations with her?
a: Sometimes I --
q: Do you recollect an occasion when you had extended conversation?
a: I do not recollect the time or occasion.
q: Do you recollect when last you told to Mrs Gibson or any person the condition of her affairs?
a: I don't.
q: Had you done it from 1876 at any time?
a: I don't remember.
q: Had you your attention at any time directed to any peculiarity in the manner of Mrs. Gibson
with reference to people who came in contact with her?
a: I don't know.
q: As for instance in the matter of shaking hands with her. Did she allow a person
ungloved to shake hands with her?
a: She did not. If she did it was with
reluctance.
q: Do you recollect an occasion of seeing any person shaking hands ungloved during 5 years
previous to her death?
a: I don't.
q: when was your attention first called to that peculiarity?
a: When I first went into the office. No, no,
it was within a few years by other parties who went in to see her.
q: How long since do you recollect your attention was first called to it?
a: Since signing of the will!
q: When was your attention first called to the fact that she did not shake hands with anyone ungloved.
a: I don't know that any attention was ever called to it.
q: How did you observe it?
a: Because she had a reluctance to shaking hands with myself.
q: When did you observe that first?
a: I can not tell.
q: Three or 4 or 5 years previous to her death first?
a: Yes.
q: How long?
a: I can not tell you about how many.
q: As long as 5 years before her death?
a: As long as 5 years before her death
and as long as 5 yrs before the signing of the will.
q: Will you give us some illustrations of your own experience with her with regard
to that peculiarity?
a: I had rather give you the reasons
why it was with me particularly.
q: Give us the instances first?
a: I can not give the time or any thing of
that kind. I know when I called upon her in years before she objected. I told her
I could not call upon anyone I could not shake hands with & then she shook hands with
me very cordially.
q: When was that?
a: I cannot tell the time. Several years ago. Before
she signed the will.
q: Did this continue a peculiarity of hers up to the time of her death so far as you know?
a: Yes.
q: Did you notice any distinction between relatives & strangers in this matter?
a: Not at all.
q: Did you notice any peculiarity in any other matter in her manner?
a: No. I did not.
q: With regard to using the property for other persons? Or if they used her property,
not using it after them?
a: I don't know anything about it.
q: Had you an opportunity to observe in that matter?
a: No sir.
q: With regard to her clothing or dress?
a: I had no opportunity to observe.
q: You have made no particular study of diseases of the mind have you?
a: Not a specialty.
q: Have you had the care of insane persons?
a: No sir. I am happy to say.
q: Or persons of weak mind?
a: I have come in contact with a great many of
weak minds.
q: But you have never given any special attention to the causes of such weakness of mind?
a: No sir. All I know some have peculiar
idiosyncracies. Made it no especial study.
q: Tell me in what kind of a chair Mrs. Gibson was sitting at the time she signed the will?
a: I can not.
q: Can you say she was not on the bed at either time?
a: Yes.
q: Which time?
a: Neither time.
q: Did you see her use her hands?
a: Yes sir.
q: On both occasions?
a: Yes sir.
q: Show me just how she used her left hand.
a: I can not.
q: Can you tell me how she used her left hand?
a: I cannot.
q: Do you recollect seeing her use her left hand?
a: I can not.
q: Do you recollect where she was when she wrote her name?
a: Yes sir.
q: To the will for instance first?
a: Yes sir.
q: Where was she?
a: In the room over the office.
q: In a chair or where?
a: Sitting in the chair there.
q: Do you recollect she came to the table to write her name?
a: She was sitting. She did not move out
of her chair.
q: Did she upon either occasion rise from her chair?
a: No sir.
q: Did she rise from her chair in your presence while you were in the room?
a: No.
q: Had she the appearance of an invalid in any respect at the time of signing the
codicil?
a: Nothing more than she was aged,
and I don't think there was any appearance of --
q: Invalidism?
a: No.
q: You know of her disease?
a: Yes sir.
q: Of what cause she died?
a: I don't.
q: Do you know how long?
a: I don't know any special thing that was the cause.
q: Do you know of any special ailment she had before she died?
a: No.
q: Did you by observation at any time learn she was subject to paralysis of any form?
a: No. I don't think she was.
q: Never mind. Did you in any manner learn it?
a: None whatever. The first time I ever heard
of her being paralyzed is what you have said. Of the possibility of it.
q: Did you learn of her being subject to any disease except old age previous to her death?
a: No.
REDIRECT
q: What has been your employment there at the office Mr. Worth?
a: To receive the income of the estate
from the various trusts, to pay them over to the various legatees.
q: Whose estate?
a: Henry B. Gibson's.
q: You were employed by the trustees of Mr. Gibson?
a: Yes sir.
q: You spoke of Mr. Henry Lansing examining your books from time to time?
a: Yes sir.
q: I don't know but you said you made out accounts & submitted to him?
a: Always.
q: Who is he? with reference to the estate of Mr. Gibson? What was Mr. Lansing's
relation to the estate?
a: He was trustee.
q: Of whose estate?
a: Henry B. Gibson's.
q: What were the accounts you rendered to Mr. lansing that he examined?
a: I did not handle Mrs. Gibson's
because she did not require it. It was a provision of the will that they
should receive semi-annual statements & those statements I made out; all
except Mrs. Gibson's.
q: You spoke of your manner of paying the moneys which came into your hands. Describe that.
a: What do you mean? Mrs. Gibson's?
q: Yes.
a: When it came into my hands when I first went
into the establishment I used to pay any money over to Mrs. Gibson, sent it in to her &
she signed a receipt for it and afterwards she found it more convenient for me to pay the bills
after they were sent in and submitted to her, paid the bills she authorized me to pay - bills
she had not seen I never paid them till she saw them & authorized me to pay them.
q: Then you paid them direct instead of paying the money to her & she paying them?
a: Yes sir.
q: How about the surplus income if there was a surplus?
a: She was in the habit of directing that her income, suplus, to be deposited with Duncan, Sherman & Company
of New York. Afterwards when Duncan Sherman --
q: Who sent it down?
a: I sent it down myself. Mr. Lansing never touched it
at all. He never knew anything about it, only he knew I sent it.
q: After Duncan, Sherman & Co. failed, then what?
a: I recommended Mrs. Gibson to send her money to
the American Exchange Bank N.Y. where I was intimately acquainted & where they had peculiar arrangements
of which I particularly approved. [Duncan, Sherman & Co. was the bank of
Watts Sherman, the husband of Henry and Sarah's daughter, Sarah Maria.]
q: You sent it.
a: I sent it to her request.
q: You spoke of sending the money into Mrs. Sherman up to the time of Mrs. Sherman's death?
a: Up to the time of her illness I did.
That was simply for the payment of servants.
q: Mrs. Sherman looked after the housekeeping?
a: Yes sir.
q: You were asked when Mrs. Sherman died?
a: I cannot.
q: Was it a year ago last June?
a: I cannot say. Not a great while ago.
q: How old a lady was Mrs. Gibson? At the time of her death?
a: She was 84 years old I think. 83.
q: About the same age as yourself?
a: She was a little older than myself.
q: She was in her 85th year. You were 85 last August?
a: Eighty four last August. She was a little less
than a year older than I. Her brithday was in September & I in August.
RECROSS
q Previous to the signing of the will did you ever have any conversation from the time
you went into -- took charge of the business -- did you have any conversation with
Mrs. Gibson on the subject of disposing of her estate by will?
a: No sir.
q: Did you up to the time of making the codicil?
a: No sir.
Mr. Cogswell: The signing of the deposition by the witness is waived by both parties.
Mr. Rains:
q: Whether you signed before or after Judge Smith?
a: I signed after Judge Smith.
q: In both instances?
a: No. Judge Smith signed after I did, that is, the will.
Miss Leask signed after me, and I after Judge Smith in signing the codicil.
q: At the time the will was signed did Mrs. Gibson before or after you sign?
a: Before. And acknowledged it as her signature & I saw
her sign it. Obj. to the last of the answer, "I saw her sign it." Stricken out.
q: At the time the codicil did she sign before or after you signed.
a: Before.
Mr. Cogswell:
q: What did she do when she signed the will & codicil. What did she say? Obj as xx. Overruled.
a: She did not say it was her signature. She said it was --
She said it was her will to the codicil -- in both instances it was her signature and it was.
q: What did she say?
a: I can not tell what she said.
q: What did she say about her signature?
a: That her hand trembled. That was all.
Adjourned
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Copyright © 2003, Mary S. Van Deusen
