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(not all descendants shown) |
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(not all descendants shown) |
Sidney Montgomery Livingston (1796-1856) +(1829) Joannah Maria Holthuysen (1804-1862)
Edwin George Livingston (1798-1863)
Jane Patterson Livingston (1800-1870) +(1830) Rev. William Barber Thomas (1797-1876)
Elizabeth Davenport Livingston (1805-1886) +(1836) US Supreme Court Justice Smith Thompson (1768-1843)
Susan Catherine Livingston (1807-1889) +(1846) Abram Gifford Gurney (1809-aft1880)
Helen Platt Livingston (1802-1859) +(1853) Wakeman Bradley (1783-1865)
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TOPICS |
WITNESS LETTER |
Who heard poem read, and when | xx |
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3 Jan 1900 Cornelia Griswold Goodrich to Henry Livingston of Babylon LI "He and all his brothers and sisters remember distinctly their father coming from out his "den" as he called his study in the old Manor House at Locust Grove on the South Road two miles out of Po'keepsie and long since the property of my Uncle, Prof. S.F.B. Morse, and reading this poem to his children just before Xmas. I have letters in my possession testifying to this, at the time the question was asked in the daily papers about 25 years ago as to who was the author of Mother Goose's Nursery Rhymes, and who the author of 'Twas the Night Before Xmas'. "We have as you see, no actual proof, no mss, only the actual eye-witnesses of the birth of this charming poem on the spot and at the time I indicate, and I am sure 5 people out of a family could not have been so positive were there not truth in the assertion."
"I think Uncle Charles was born in 1794, and was probably 8 or 10 years old at the time he heard his
father read the poem- Still he may have been older or younger - of course I know nothing about that."
"None of the other children remembered anything about it. So of course they were all very young."
"Besides you know in those bygone days it had not reached the zenith of its popularity - or become of so
much importance. As to the time when I first heard it -- I cannot remember anytime before I knew it.
So I have always known it!! Mother used to repeat it delightfully and I think father did too - though I
am not perfectly sure about that."
"My grandmother, Eliza Clement Brewer Livingston, knew her father-in-law, Major Henry Livingston
all her llife and was on intimate terms with the family from her childhood- she lived with her
grandparents Mitchell at "Russ Plass"{ the estate adjoining the Livingstons. She told me that Major
Henry wrote verses all the time, & always at New Year, an address that was published in the
Poughkeepsie paper- "Donder & Blitzen" was a familiar expression of his- He wore a night cap in
winter & his wife tied her head up in a 'kerchief.
"Great grand mother Jane Paterson was very original I have been told. She probably would tie her
head up in a 'kerchief if other people wore close night caps- She was quick & lively and did things her
own way."
"Any how, she played constantly with the Livingston children & she & her husband, my grandfather,
were sweethearts from child-hood."
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Finding manuscript and printed poem | xx |
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4 Mar 1879 Eliza Livingston Thompson Lansing to Anne Livingston Goodrich "Many years after my father's decease, which took place more than fifty years ago [1828]; at that time my brother in looking over his papers found the original in his own handwriting, with his many fugitive pieces which he had preserved. "I remember my brother Charles took the poem home with him, he was then living in Ohio, and I have an indistinct idea that he intended to have it published, but I am not at all sure on that point, so don't like to assert it as fact."
"We could find no paper in which it was
published altho' all his children remember its having been published in a Po'keepsie paper at that time,
between 1780 and 1800. They think the paper was called [WST: Error] "The Po'keepsie Gazette" tho it
may have been the Knickerbocker Mag;"
"I think the poem was first published in the Knickerbocker Magazine early in this century, but whether
the author's name was attached or not I do not know. The Magazine is on file in the Astor Library, &
some time I mean to hunt it up- If I find it as I expect I will certainly inform you."
"After his death - some years after - the paper disappeared, and cousin Jeannie Hubbard - his daughter
- cannot remember the date of the paper. If any one knew that, it might settle the claim entirely."
"I never heard of - or saw, any paper with it in, that Uncle Charles had. And if there had been such a paper I feel sure Cousin Jeannie Hubbard would have had it. And I would have seen it. She often talked about this. And said her father, Uncle Charles, believed his father wrote it. Said he could remember when a boy, his father reading it to the family, with the ink yet wet on the paper.
"I never heard of the original manuscript of the Christmas poem. What Uncle Charles remembered was in Grand Father's writing."
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Why the family thought the poem was his (besides hearing it recited or having the mss) | xx |
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4 Mar 1879 Eliza Livingston Thompson Lansing to Anne Livingston Goodrich "And then, too, the style was so exactly his, when he felt in a humorous mood. We have often said, could it be possible that another could express the same originality of thought and use the same phrases so familiar to us, as Father's!"
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How did they think the poem got to Moore, and how did Moore react | xx |
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3 Jan 1900 Cornelia Griswold Goodrich to Henry Livingston of Babylon LI "His children declare that the Moore's must have been possessed of the poem in the following manner; a young governess was visiting in my g-g-grandfather's family at Locust Grove who was employed in the Moore family somewhere down South. She was a mutual friend of both families- At the time of her visit this poem had just been written and was read to her, she was much struck by it and asked for a copy and taking it down South after returning to the Moore family, no doubt it lay there for years without a claimant and no doubt minus a name, for in those days authors were more modest than they are now-a-days and names were not given the publicity they are at present. [WST: Error] Clement C. Moore I think was dead when his children or g. children laid claim to this poem, and I don't think either C.C. Moore himself or any of his family would knowingly lay claim to anything that was not their own, did they think it belonged to another, but in the lapse of years, a poem lying about without a name, you can easily conceive how easily it could be transferred."
"All were delighted with the verses, and the guest, in particular, was so much impressed by them that she begged Mr.
Livingston to let her have a copy of the poem. He consented, and made a copy in his own hand which he gave to her.
"On leaving Locust Grove, when her visit came to an end, this young lady went directly to the home of Mr. Clement C.
Moore, where she filled the position of Governess to his children.
"The above is all that I remember positively as having been told me by my grandmother.
"There are two further details which I think were a part of the story, although I am not so sure of my recollection of
them as of the above main facts. One is that the young lady was either a Canadian or an English woman (I am
inclined to think the former) and that other is that, on leaving Locust Grove, she went to join Mr. Moore's family in
one of the Southern states.
"I heard this spoken of by Mrs. Griswold after I had reached years of discretion (20 years). [About 1870, based on
Mary's birthdate about 1850] She spent the latter years of her life at my father's home at Poughkeepsie, where she
died in 1881."
"I think Miss Butler of Troy was a very indiscreet young lady to publish another's poem without
permission. Mr. Pelletreau says she did so & Dr. Moore did not like it a bit! It was not until 1862 that
Dr. Moore gave an autograph copy of the verses, now preserved by the New York Historical Society."
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Learning Moore was taking credit | xx |
xx |
4 Mar 1879 Eliza Livingston Thompson Lansing to Anne Livingston Goodrich "Your letter has just reached me, and I hasten to tell you all I know about the poem 'Night Before Christmas.' It was approved and believed in our family to be Father's, and I well remember our astonishment when we saw it claimed as Clement C. Moore's."
"Commodore has tried in various Philadelphia libraries to find a copy of Dr. Moore's verses published in
1844 but without success. I expect you can find it in New York."
"This is my only proof. The word of my stately, truthful, dependable grandmother, Eliza Clement
Brewer Livingston. I could go on -- but enough -- "
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Descendants trying to prove authorship | xx |
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3 Jan 1900 Cornelia Griswold Goodrich to Henry Livingston of Babylon LI "I have letters in my possession testyfying to this, at the time the question was asked in the daily papers about 25 years ago as to who was the author of Mother Goose's Nursery Rhymes, and who the author of 'Twas the Night Before Xmas'. We could find no paper in which it was published altho' all his children remember its having been published in a Po'keepsie paper at that time, between 1780 and 1800. They think the paper was called [WST: Error] "The Po'keepsie Gazette" tho it may have been the Knickerbocker Mag;--"
"My mother said that her grandfather used the "Dunder & Blitzen" as
familiarly as some other people say "Great Scott!" etc etc etc!"
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What did descendants know and not know about Henry? | xx |
xx |
4 Mar 1879 Eliza Livingston Thompson Lansing to Anne Livingston Goodrich "My father had a fine poetical taste, and wrote a great deal both prose and poetry, but not for publication, but for his own and our amusement; he also had a great taste for drawing and painting. When we were children he used to entertain us on winter evenings by getting down the paint box, we seated around the table, first he would portray something very pathetic, which would melt us to tears, the next thing would be so comic, that we would be almost wild with laughter. And this dear good man was your great-great-grandfather."
"Mother used to say- 'he was a perfect Encyclopedia' 'at home on any & every subject, and no question
was too hard for him to answer'."
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Who had what? | xx |
xx |
3 Jan 1900 Cornelia Griswold Goodrich to Henry Livingston of Babylon LI "We have many similar poems of his written in that vein, or rather my cousin, Miss Gertrude Thomas has"
"would you find any interest in a "Statement of title to Dominick's Hook" which, apparently, seems vested in one Samuel Bayard - a little matter of 60 acres in the heart of the City? It is also in Prof. Morse's handwriting dated 1833."
"How this book of Aunt Sue's came here I do not know but you see I was correct in feeling sure that I
had seen the Nancy Crooke Rebus- Although I thought it was an acrosticd as Nellie G. entitled it. Of
course A Visit from St. Nick if written by Grandfather was written a number of years after these
contained in the little book which I am sending you. This book was in the top of dear Aunt Jeannie's
bookdcase which stands on the bureau in my room. I do not think there is anything in that which
could clinch the authorship of "A Visit etc - still such as it is I send to thee. You need not return it to me
- just keep it - with love. And please show to Nellie."
"Rob said he gave me back the letters to send to you. I do not remember it. At any rate those letters bore no reference to poetry and threw no light on the authorship of the classic verses. "If Guy Livingston has the Livingston family bible, I think there is a poem in that composed by Major Henry on the birth or the death of one of his children."
"I am delighted that you suggested a photograph of the chessman and it will be a pleasure to help you
that much. You might use the picture in your historical article. Of Henry Livingston's actual personal
belongings I possess, besides the chessmen, his pair of wine decanters and his engraving of George and
Martha Washington and the Curtis children.
"We had in this house also his tall clock and the family Bible. The clock, my mother willed to my niece,
Mrs. Harold Crosskill, now living in University Heights. She hasn't taken it away & it is still in
Sandusky. I was sorry to see it go out of the house, but my brother would have had it, so my mother
gave it to his eldest child. The Bible went to my mother's eldest brother & eventually to Guy Livingston
now living in Cleveland. He has said that the Bible is to go to my son Robbie. The Bible was in this
house until I was quite grown up. I believe that there are some verses in it written by Henry L-- upon
the death of a child. I have seen them somewhere, and I think they were in the Bible.
"I will write Jeannie Gurney. Her mother, (Aunt Susan) was the last of Henry Livingston's children.
The Gurney's were burned out two or three times, so much may have been lost. I am sending you to
read, the last letter I have in my possession written by Henry Livingston. Please return it. I wish to
keep it as it is congratulation upon the birth of my mother's eldest sister [Eliza] who didn't live long. I
have a letter written by his wife, our great-grandmother."
"Mother had a blank book in which grandfather had written a number of his poems. And oh how often
I have wished for it. But it was burned when our house burned in 1869. I have an old book that
belonged to Grandfather, and his name is written in it. I don't think the book is of much account, but if
you would like it, I will send it to you."
"I am delighted to have a photograph of it.
"Please be assured of my many thanks and appreciation.
"The picture of Henry Livingston in the "Kodak" I sent to you is a pen & ink sketch made by my sister
Katharine from a portrait.
"She made it when I was in some foreign country, and I do not know from whose portrait she copied it.
"My impression is that it belonged to great aunt Susan and ultimately to her daughter, Jeannie
Gurney.
"I know that Katharine went more than once to visit Jeannie's near Oconomowoc.
"When Jeannie died she gave many of her belongings to some of her friends in Oconomowoc.
"To my daughter Grazia she gave a silver cream pitcher that had belonged to our great-grandmother
Jane Paterson Livingston.
"I am sure the portrait belonged to her.
"Where is it now?
"The chessmen were made by Henry Livingston while he was in the army.
"Jeannie Gurney gave them to me, and I have given them to my son Robert.
"The snuff box is beautiful. I hope some day to see it.
"We had the hall clock with their four balls - ornament, not a sign! Mother gave the clock to my brother
Livingston. It now belongs to his oldest daughters, Millicent Hubbard Crosskill, 25 Fifth Avenue, New
York. The clock, however, stands here in her mother's house.
"The decanters in the "Kodak" were Henry Livingston's very own. No doubt he enjoyed them, which he
could not do were he here now!"
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DATE |
FROM |
TO |
TOPICS |
15 Dec 1851 | Henry Livingston Thomas | Abraham Lansing | Uses NBC phrase |
3 Mar 1879 | Eliza L. Thompson Lansing | Annie Livingston Goodrich | Family believed Henry the author. Shocked to hear Moore claim. Brother found the original. Phrases from the poem were familiar from Henry's poetry. Henry painted for children's amusement. |
25 Nov 1886 | Benson Lossing | Cornelia Griswold Goodrich | Circumstantial proof is good, but needs more to change attribution. |
3 Jan 1900 | Cornelia Griswold Goodrich | Henry Livingston of Babylon LI | Read that he was claiming Henry's authorship. Edwin had original manuscript lost in fire. All Henry's children remember Henry reading the poem to them. Abt 25 years ago there was published the question who was the author of NBC. Poem was published in maybe Po'keepsie Gazette or Knickerbocker. Poem got to Moore through governess going south to work for a Moore family. Thinks Moore never knew his name was attached to poem. |
10 Jan 1900 | Henry Livingston of Babylon LI | Cornelia Griswold Goodrich | Didn't hear of Moore's claim until 1862. Thought it was made without Moore's permission. Sidney said Henry was the author, that he heard it about 1804-5, that he had the original manuscript and gave it to his brother Edwin. It burned. Thinks poem first printed in Knickerbocker Magazine. |
17 Sep 1900 | Henry Livingston Thomas | Henry Livingston of Babylon LI | Henry's Revolutionary War journal was edited using his original grammar and spelling. |
22 Jan 1905 | Gertrude Thomas | Cornelia Griswold Goodrich | Charles oldest and said he remembered Henry reading the poem. Took poem home and read it aloud to friends. Published in Poughkeepsie Eagle. After Charles death the paper disappeared. |
18 Oct bef1909 | Gertrude Thomas | Cornelia Griswold Goodrich | Finds no letters from Eliza. Has Rebus on the name of Nancy Crooke, and will send copy. She knows nothing except what she's heard from Jeanne Hubbard [Denig] about Charles owning a published copy of the poem. Tells story of Catharine falling down well, saved by Sally. |
23 Oct 1912 | Gertrude Thomas | Helen Haugan or Helen Thomas | Trying to figure out what year Henry wrote the poem, based on Charles' story. |
Unknown | Cornelia Griswold Goodrich | x | x |
Unknown | Gertrude Thomas | Mary Goodrich Montgomery | Only know what I know from the family of Charles. Charles had a published copy of the poem that was inherited by his daughter Jane, who lost it. Says only has a few acrostics (Nancy Crooke?) |
Unknown | Gertrude Thomas | Cornelia Griswold Goodrich | Doesn't see how you shake such a strong statement of authorship as the one Moore made. Repeats story of Charles having the published poem, and remembering when Henry read the poem to his children. |
26 Feb 1917 | Gertrude Thomas | Cornelia Griswold Goodrich | Knows of no picture of Henry's house. Thinks Charles must have been ten or twelve when he heard the poem read by Henry. Believes poem published in a Poughkeepsie paper. Says has no other poem of Henry's. Tells story of Jane Paterson's red dress. |
28 Feb 1917 | Gertrude Thomas | WS Thomas |
Her mother Jane knew NBC was in Henry's style, but didn't know of her own that he wrote it. Jane knew from her brother Charles remembering Henry reading it to the children. |
3 Mar 1917 | Mary Goodrich Montgomery | WS Thomas |
Grandmother told her that poem moved to Moore's household through a governess known to the Livingston family, who might have been Canadian, and might have been joining a Moore family in the South. |
3 Mar 1917 | Mary Goodrich Montgomery | WS Thomas |
Sends WST a small piece of Catharine Livingston's wedding dress, and a letter from Arthur Breese on the death of Henry's son, Henry Welles. She also has a deed in Morse's handwriting. |
Undated | Mary Goodrich Montgomery | WS Thomas |
She has someone searching for a sketch of a house, but not clear if house of Henry Jr. or Sr. |
12 Mar 1917 | Jeanne Hubbard Denig | WS Thomas | tried to prove Henry's case few years ago; has collected memories from relatives; Grandmother knew poem before 1823 Troy Sentinel publication |
13 Mar 1917 | Jeanne Hubbard Denig | WS Thomas |
Grandmother knew poem before 1823 Troy Sentinel publication. She and Charles both taught their children that Henry had written the poem. When Grandmother learned that Moore was taking credit, she said a mistake had been made and should be corrected. |
14 Mar 1917 | Jeanne Hubbard Denig | WS Thomas |
Governess took poem to Moore. Poem first published in Poughkeepsie paper. Grandmother first learned Moore taking credit in 1859. Moore's Poems wasn't obtainable in Philadelphia. Nellie tried to prove his authorship. Moore not happy when poem published in Troy Sentinel. |
25 Mar 1917 | Jeanne Hubbard Denig | WS Thomas |
Edwin wrote poetry with same swing and some of same words as NBC in 1821. |
30 Mar 1917 | Gertrude Thomas | WS Thomas |
I found Susan's poetry book and am sending it to you. |
23 Dec 1918 | Jeanne Hubbard Denig | WS Thomas |
Mother and grandmother discovering Moore's claim. Guy's family bible might have Henry poem. Henry wrote verses all the time, always at New Years for the Poughkeepsie paper. Donder & Blitzen was a favorite expression. He wore a nightcap, Jane wore a kerchief. Let's publish our claim. |
15 May 1920 | Helen Electa Thomas Blackwell | WS Thomas |
Don't publicize the authorship issue. I'm afraid of the repercussions. |
18 May 1920 | WS Thomas | Helen Electa Thomas Blackwell |
Let me handle the repercussions. |
20 May 1920 | Helen Electa Thomas Blackwell | WS Thomas |
OK |
21 May 1920 | Cornelia Griswold Goodrich | WS Thomas |
Am giving a talk to DAR. Not sure if Christian Science Monitor is right place to publish. |
31 May 1920 | Cornelia Griswold Goodrich | WS Thomas |
Horrified by interview with WST and writer of Christian Science Monitor article. Give me back my DAR article. |
31 May 1920 | WS Thomas | Cornelia Griswold Goodrich |
Don't panic. |
9 Jun 1920 | Cornelia Griswold Goodrich | WS Thomas |
Alright, but don't tell me anything about what happens. |
8 Jul 1920 | Gertrude Thomas | WS Thomas |
Henry's knowledge was encyclopedic. |
10 Jul 1920 | Helen Wilkinson Reynolds | WS Thomas |
Henry's house sold to Montgomery, then Morse. Major probably from Militia; Judge from Justice of the Peace. |
26 Jul 1920 | WS Thomas | Helen Wilkinson Reynolds |
Thanks for correcting my information. Can I give copies of your letters to the NY Historical Society? I'll mail you my Henry scrapbook to examine. |
4 Aug 1920 | Major Robert L. Denig, Jr. | WS Thomas |
Am sending you the letters of Henry's I've found. |
7 Aug 1920 | WS Thomas | Major Robert L. Denig, Jr. |
I'll send them back to you, but wish you'd donate them to the NYPL. |
2 Oct 1920 | Jeanne Hubbard Denig | WS Thomas |
Grandfather clock and family bible came down our line. Her way of inheriting shows why Sidney gave original mss to Edwin rather than to his own children. Everyone knew Henry wrote the poem, and grandmother heard him recite it as his own. |
5 Oct 1920 | Jeannie Gurney | WS Thomas |
Will send book Henry owned. Wished so often for book of poems that burned. He wrote 4th of July speeches for people to give. |
28 Oct 1920 | Jeannie Gurney | WS Thomas |
Will send decanter that belonged to Henry. Said Susan didn't know if Henry wrote the poem, just that it was in his style. Didn't know about the manuscript copy of the poem belonging to Edwin, or about anything of Edwin's burning. Only knew that her mother's poems from Henry had burned. Had heard from Jeanne Denig that Charles had heard Henry recite the poem as his own. [In her last letter, Jeannie bemoaned the burning of her mother's book of poetry. WST has obviously not told her that Gertrude gave him that book 3 years before!] |
13 Dec 1920 | Jeanne Hubbard Denig | WS Thomas |
Will send better pictures of chess set and decanters. |
13 Dec 1920 | Casimir de R. Moore | WS Thomas |
I remember your father from school, but neither I nor my brother remember any such conversation about 'Night Before Christmas' as you mention. |
3 Jan 1921 | Jeanne Hubbard Denig | WS Thomas |
Sending Paterson letter to be returned. |
4 May 1932 | Jeanne Hubbard Denig | WS Thomas |
WST has snuff box. |
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